Modified:
16 Apr 2010
by Jessica E...

Vote totals:

Yes:

75%

No:

25%

Neutral:

0%

 
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DEBATE: SHOULD GAY MARRIAGE BE ALLOWED IN SYNAGOGUE?

Gay Jewish couples could soon be allowed to marry in synagogue after religious groups including Liberal Judaism and several Anglican bishops have lent their support to a relaxation of a ban. An amendment to the Equality Bill is expected to be debated in the Lords next month to pave the way for the registration of civil ceremonies for gay couples in churches, synagogues and other religious premises. Should we allow gay couples to hold their ceremonies in shul? Or does this blur the line on the sanctity of traditional marriage?





SHOULD GAY MARRIAGE BE ALLOWED IN SYNAGOGUE?


Love is love



In fifty years time we will be shocked we denied ten per cent of our society such a fundemental right.
How dare we discriminate in this way against fellow human beings, who want to settle down together and show the world they love each other?
I would like to see it go even further than this. All synagogues should accept this, and we shouldn't allow them to have a choice in the matter.
The laws of Leviticus, with their prohibition of homosexuality, were written in the distant past at a time when human populations were far lower than today - increased populations offered many benefits, such as the ability to locate exploit new resources while spreading across the globe. I believe that Leviticus sought to facilitate this by encouraging all humans to produce offspring, and that there is no ethical (as opposed to practical) reason why one should not be homosexual. In modern times, when the human population is enormous, there is no longer any practical reason that we should all feel we are required to have children. If there is no ethical objection towards homosexuality (and I cannot believe that a loving G-d would oppose any form of love between consenting adults), why not allow them to sanctify their partnerships in this way?
Counter: If marriage by definition is a 'fruitful' communion, then there should be no such thing as an 'illegitimate child' or that marriage between infertile or impotent persons isn't marriage at all. By that count if a woman is infertile she can never marry alternatively, any single mother is married having given birth.
marriage is a lawful respectable union of two sexual/romantic partners that may or may not bear children. The idea is to sanctify the bond between same sex couples not merely in legal terms but in terms of being given equal status/rights/respect to married people of different sexes.
Living-together/having-a-relationship/sharing-children is not the same as marriage for couples of different sexes, why should 'it' be for same-sex couples?

Of course not
It states clearly in Leviticus Chapter 18 verse 22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
If you want to "be" considered Jewish, this is the rule that we must abide by. There is no choice in the matter - it is crystal clear.
If you do not want to be considered Jewish then the "rules" do not apply and you can do what you like.
Liberal Judaism has made a mockery of Jewish values and of the sanctity of marriage with this step; it is a step too far, even for the Liberal movement. Although, as a Liberal Jew myself, I appreciate that sometimes it is far preferable to uphold the spirit rather than the letter of the Law, I believe this is flying in the face of the essence of the Torah and of marriage. I have homosexual friends; three couples. However, I believe that to call a homosexual pairing a "marriage" is absurd - marriage is a union of a man and a woman, enjoined to "be fruitful and multiply". Liberal Judaism may find that it has shot itself in the foot with a divisive move that might alienate many of its congregants; the movement might find that the only people standing under its chuppah in future are same sex couples. Compassion for gays, yes; marriage, never.
This is the Jewish Chronicle web site; compassion and understanding OK, but please, let's stop with this idea advocating "Gay" as if it is an alternative to normality; it is NOT. Those who wish to advocate this idea should be blogging on "Gay Pride" web sites not the Jewish Chronicle.
Here am I getting upset about the Jewish Chronicle giving publicity to Gay ideas, when it finally dawned on me; it is Purim today, and all this Gay nonsense on the Jewish Chronicle web-site has been a "Purim Spiel".
--------
As someone quoted in the supportng article for gay marriages "I would like to see it go even further than this. All synagogues should accept this, and we shouldn't allow them to have a choice in the matter."
That's exactly the problem, some gay people want to force by legislation their worldly or religious view on others - and also try to silence G-d's voice by equal opportunities.... So serial adulterers, do we then say you were born that way (addictive personality) and it's not your problem, therefore acceptable - and G-d loves you and your ways?
Regarding "If there is no ethical objection towards homosexuality (and I cannot believe that a loving G-d would oppose any form of love between consenting adults), why not allow them to sanctify their partnerships in this way?"
It's obvious to anyone that when a man has sex with a woman there is a potential to procreate - and that the genitals between the couple fit each other and were made to work together - the same can not be said when two females or two males are in bed together - and for someone to stick their genitals in someone else's wastepipe - logically was not G-d's will. So I believe it is an ethical argument, not just one of procreation.

What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD GAY MARRIAGE BE ALLOWED IN SYNAGOGUE?


Absolutely.



Yes. Same-sex weddings at religious institutions have been going on in America for quite some time now, even though they are not recognized by law in many states here. While I certainly believe that the laws should be changed to make same-sex marriage legal both here and in the United Kingdom, a religious institution should always be a place of refuge for every congregant it serves -- no matter what the law says. Synagogues all over the US perform same-sex marriages, like Sha'ar Zahav in San Francisco, where marriages went from being not recognized by law, to being recognized, to now unfortunately not being recognized by law once again. In New York, Congregation Beth Simchat Torah performs many marriage ceremonies, even though gay marriage has never ever yet been legal in New York State. I hope that British government does allow for marriages to occur within the synagogues, whether or not they are officially recognized by the country. Israel, where laws are strongly influenced by an Orthodox rabbinate, is doing a very good job welcoming the LGBT community into its fold: http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c361_a15821/News/Tel_Aviv_At_100.html
Sharon Udasin, staff writer at The Jewish Week sharon@sharonudasin.com
P.S. Since I also blog for Jewlicious.com in addition to writing for The Jewish Week I just posted the following, inspired by Jessica's article: http://www.jewlicious.com/2010/02/progress-for-lgbt-jews-and-non-jews-in-the-united-kingdom/


SHOULD GAY MARRIAGE BE ALLOWED IN SYNAGOGUE?


Why not?



They have as much right to be miserable as straight people do.


SHOULD GAY MARRIAGE BE ALLOWED IN SYNAGOGUE?


This will divide our community



The divide is coming from conservative Judaism, not progressives. Progressive Jews are happy to respect conservative traditions -- no one is forcing conservatives to hold gay marriages in their shuls. Why can't conservatives let that respect go both ways, respect the progressive traditions of tolerance and love, and allow progressive Jews to practice marriages according to that tradition?
The seeds of discontent are the seeds of prejudice and discrimination. Those were planted by conservative Jews, not progressives.
counter: Why don't you respect the traditions and rituals of progressive Jews?

The Jewish community has so much more to worry about than this. We have a crisis over conversions, over education and over antisemitism?
And now we should split our community over a gay couple having their simcha in a shul or a town hall?
Progressive Judaism is seeking to plant these seeds of discontent even deeper into our community. Why can't we learn to respect each others traditions?

What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No


Vote on the overall debate: Should gay marriage be allowed in synagogue?

What do you think?  Vote on this debate below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No
1. Love is love
# 1

In fifty years time we will be shocked we denied ten per cent of our societ such a fundemental right. How dare we discriminate in this way against fellow human beings, who want to settle down together and show the world they love each other?
I would like to see it go even further than this. All synagogues should accept this, and we shouldn't allow them to have a choice in the matter.

Jessica Elgot

|

15:37, 23 February 10

|

Karma Score: 265

|

Applause: 2


# 2

Of course not
It states clearly in Leviticus Chapter 18 verse 22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
If you want to "be" considered Jewish, this is the rule that we must abide by. There is no choice in the matter - it is crystal clear.
If you do not want to be considered Jewish then the "rules" do not apply and you can do what you like.

Jon_i_Cohen

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16:37, 23 February 10

|

Karma Score: 32


# 3

This seems to be assuming that the man will lie with the man (is women with woman the same?) he marries which while the chances are this does follow almost all the time does not follow all the time. Marrage does not have to mean that you lie with your partner.

Alex Helling

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15:08, 24 February 10

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Karma Score: 72



2. Absolutely.
# 1

Yes. Same-sex weddings at religious institutions have been going on in America for quite some time now, even though they are not recognized by law in many states here. While I certainly believe that the laws should be changed to make same-sex marriage legal both here and in the United Kingdom, a religious institution should always be a place of refuge for every congregant it serves -- no matter what the law says. Synagogues all over the US perform same-sex marriages, like Sha'ar Zahav in San Francisco, where marriages went from being not recognized by law, to being recognized, to now unfortunately not being recognized by law once again. In New York, Congregation Beth Simchat Torah performs many marriage ceremonies, even though gay marriage has never ever yet been legal in New York State. I hope that British government does allow for marriages to occur within the synagogues, whether or not they are officially recognized by the country. Israel, where laws are strongly influenced by an Orthodox rabbinate, is doing a very good job welcoming the LGBT community into its fold: http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c361_a15821/News/Tel_Aviv_At_100.html
Sharon Udasin, staff writer at The Jewish Week sharon@sharonudasin.com

Sharon Udasin

|

16:30, 23 February 10

|

Karma Score: 6



3. Why not?
# 1

They have as much right to be miserable as straight people do.

Mill Hillbilly

|

13:46, 09 March 10

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Karma Score: 3



1. This will divide our community
# 1

The Jewish community has so much more to worry about than this. We have a crisis over conversions, over education and over antisemitism?
And now we should split our community over a gay couple having their simcha in a shul or a town hall?
Progressive Judaism is seeking to plant these seeds of discontent even deeper into our community. Why can't we learn to respect each others traditions?

Jessica Elgot

|

15:40, 23 February 10

|

Karma Score: 265


# 2

The divide is coming from conservative Judaism, not progressives. Progressive Jews are happy to respect conservative traditions -- no one is forcing conservatives to hold gay marriages in their shuls. Why can't conservatives let that respect go both ways, respect the progressive traditions of tolerance and love, and allow progressive Jews to practice marriages according to that tradition?
The seeds of discontent are the seeds of prejudice and discrimination. Those were planted by conservative Jews, not progressives.

RivkaRut

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16:04, 23 February 10

|

Karma Score: 4



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